6.7L Cummins Forum

lol... no squid I'm still around. I don't think I'll get a powerstroke, I really like dodge. I'm happy to hear they raised the GVWR to 24k. I think it can be raised alot more without a problem.

Alex,

I think you have been mixing apples and oranges. Your truck and your FW each has their own GVWR which is their maximum rating. By adding them together you get your GCWR, your maximum carrying capacity. So, GVWR(truck) + GVWR(FW) = GCWR(combined). Adding GAWRs to GVWR is non-sense - apples & oranges. The problem with the 2500 is its GVWR of 9000#. If your empty truck (base curb weight) is 6400# then you can only carry another 2600# before you exceed your GVWR. My GVW(loaded) is 7250#. That includes passengers, fuel and a Super Glide Hitch! This means that my pin weight can't exceed 1750# when added to my truck or it will exceed my GVWR. Generally speaking the pin weight is roughly 20% of the GVW of the Fifth Wheel. Another way to look at the problem is that the GVW(FW) equals the GCWR minus the GVW of the truck. The GVWs are the actual weights of the truck and the FW. I think you have already reached the correct answer that a 3500 is needed for your Toy Hauler! As a reality check I weighed my FW at the local CAT scale and the "steer axle" was 4140#, the "drive axle" was 5140#, the "trailer axle" was 9060# and the "gross weight" was 18340# which is less than my 20000# GCWR. The bad news is that my GVW(truck) was 9280# thereby exceeding its GVWR! Ignoring that fact my experience with a 2500+FW has been great. Most people will agree that Dodge's numbers are very conservative.
Good luck

I know no one has talked about this for a while; but I have just viewed this.
I am trying to find out if the fifth wheel I have is too big for my 2500.
These numbers drive me crazy.
If you add the GAWR front (5,200#) and GAWR rear (6,010#) that is 11,210# but the GVRW is 9,000#. Why would these numbers be different?

Now the curb weight rear is 2,684# so subtract that from the GAWR rear (6,010#) and to me it sound like I could carry 3,326# on the rear axel. But you ad 3,326# to the base curb weight of the truck (7,032#) and you get 10,260# which is 1,260# over the GVWR. Why is that?

Ok so let’s say I am maxed out GCWR of 20,000# and GVRW is 9,000# so the fifth wheel would be 11,000#. So you do the required weight for the kingpin; 20% to 25% of the trailer that would be 2,200# to 2,750# at the kingpin. Well crap, I could not even do that with and empty truck and no driver because the total carry capacity for the truck is GVRW 9,000# minus the base curb weight of 7,032# and that’s only 1,968#!
After I load the family, the dog, some goodies, and the fuel lets say 968# that would leave me with being able to have a kingpin weight of 1,000# which would be a 4,000# fifth wheel.
Do they even come that small?

Here are some numbers I had from last weekend. Truck weight 7,850#. Truck weight with trailer attached 10,150#. So that gave me a kingpin weight of 2,300#. Trailer weight attached to truck 8,400#. So that would be a trailer weight of 10,700# and a combined truck trailer weight of 18,550#. The trailer has a GCWR of 12,120# so I was pretty empty.

What do you think?
Do you think I am safe with these weights even if I had more weight in the trailer?
If I keep the GCWR under 20,000# and the kingpin under 2,750# do you think that’s good?
Thanks for the help!

I don't pull a 5er, our trailers have all been pull types. But the Dodge trucks are very much under rated, as has been proven in several towing tests. With that said, the 2007 Dodge Ram sales brochure published by Chrysler Canada states that a 2500 Quad Cab SB 4x4 powered by a 5.9 Cummins is rated at 2550 lbs payload. Maximum GCWR is rated at 20,000 lbs. Maximum trailer weight is rated at 13,100 lbs. So, it seems to me that when dealing with a 5th wheel, the two things to consider are that the pin (hitch) weight does NOT exceed the payload and the maximum trailer weight does not exceed the rating. This will keep the GVWR in line.
Up here we do a lot of camping with no hook ups, so running with a full water tank is a must. My trailer is a Jayco 28 BHS which has a GVWR of 7,500 lbs. With 2 weeks of supplies on board and a full tank of water, the trailer is sitting at or over its GVWR. Sometimes as heavy as 8,000 lbs. I also run most weekends with 1,000+ pounds (extra water, extra fuel, generator, bikes etc) in the truck box. I can only imagine what the weight would be with a large 5er! Funny how we got by with out all the crap, when we had smaller trailers and smaller tow vehicles!

I should have added that one of the truck mags did a tow test last year. Although the Dodge interior and ride did not rate as well as Ford and Chevy in the test, it straight out kicked ass in the tow test. I can't remember the numbers off hand, but the gist of it was if you are doing any serious towing, the truck to own is a Cummins Dodge.

I know this.

GAWR: Gross Axle Weight Rating (for each axle)
This is the maximum weight rating that components of each axle are designed to support (i.e., tires, wheels, brakes, springs, axle). This is determined by the lowest design capacity of any component. In other words, if the wheels have the lowest design capacity of any component on that axle, installing tires with a higher load capacity does not increase the GAWR.

GVWR: Gross Vehicle Weight Rating
GVWR is the weight rating established by the chassis manufacturer as the maximum weight (including vehicle, cargo, liquids, passengers, etc.) that the components of the chassis are designed to support.

GCWR: Gross Combined Weight Rating
GCWR represents the maximum allowable total loaded weight rating of the motor vehicle and any trailer it is towing. GCWR minus GVWR represents the allowable weight for the towed vehicle.

So that is why the GVWR and GCWR are different.

As for running overloaded I bet 95 % of the swd trucks pulling 5th wheelers and toy haulers are over weight and I mean really over weight. I saw a huge 5th wheeler in the Walmart parking lot last night being pulled by a 1/2 ton ford that was so overloaded that I don't see how the guy could see the road due to the attitude of the front end.

The biggest problem with being overloaded is that if you get into an accident you could find yourself being liable if someone raises the possibility of you being overloaded and they weigh your truck and you are.

__________________

2007.5 Dodge Ram 3500 HD,QC, 6.7L Cummins, 6speed Auto, 4X4, Bighorn Edition.
Click for installs: Carr Steps PML Diff Cover Edge Juice with Attitude Volant Intake Hankook ATM RF10

Thanks for the insight. I do have the 2008 2500HD 4x4 quad cab 6.7L
So it sounds like I am ok with the trailer weight but I’m pushing my luck with the king pin weight.
A payload of 2,550# sounds more in line than 1,968# since I had a king pin weight of 2,300# and I was not even hitting the overload.
I went to see the patriots beat up the Seahawks in Seattle a month ago in my friend’s wife’s car. It is a Subaru forester and we had five people and luggage for a 2 night stay.
People probably weighed about 800# and luggage about 200# a total of 1000# plus fuel. It’s hard to believe my truck would only carry 968# more. Granted, we were probably over weight but it was a good ride.
Any ways, point taken with the weakest link on the truck.
Might I ad how great the engine brake works as well as the transmission downshifting. The power of the engine did very well aswell going threw the Oregon coastal range.

Thanks again

I was wondering on this whole 2500 3500 thing I have added the 3500 leafs and springs to my 2500. the only thing diff I may do is add the dully wheels if needed. my truck is the HD version of the 2500 2007 6.7L. what I would like to know because my friend owns the 3500hd and ive looked it over compared to my truck is why such the differece in towing and payload specs is it just the springs and dully wheels. Is it a safety thing aposed to weight capacity for the trucks parts because the parts and frames are the same to the naked eye.

It appears that the frame is indeed the same on 2500 and 3500. Suspension differences may include the springs and shocks as well...So, it is possible to convert your 2500 to a 3500 but at what cost?
What distinguishes the 2007 Ram 3500 from the 2500 is a firmer suspension and 3,000 more pounds of towing capacity -- up to 16,350 in all. It also has the option of either single or dual rear wheels.

__________________

7.5 3500QC 6.7CTD 68RFE Build date June 2007
Superchips tuner 3808, Boost/EGT Laser Gauge, Airaid cold intake